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| Author: Wizards Rpg Team
Brand: Wizards of the Coast
Category: Book
List Price: $104.95
Buy New: $56.24
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New (32) Used (8) from $56.24
Avg. Customer Rating:  187 reviews
Sales Rank: 1508
Format: Box Set
Media: Hardcover
Edition: 4th
Number Of Items: 1
Pages: 832
Shipping Weight (lbs): 6.9
Dimensions (in): 11.6 x 8.7 x 2.4
ISBN: 0786950633
Dewey Decimal Number: 793
EAN: 9780786950638
ASIN: 0786950633
Publication Date: June 6, 2008
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| Customer Reviews:
 4th edition is inferior to all previous editions November 20, 2008
7 out of 7 found this review helpful
Let me start out by saying that if I could have given 4th edition D&D zero stars I would have. They took a vibrant system with depth and turned it into a cookie cutter game that only appeals to teenagers (no offense.)
I have been an avid gamer for many years now, not just D&D but White Wolf, LARPs and other gaming systems and yet D&D is still our weekly game. It provides a wonderful system for creating amazing and fun adventures and one of the best things about it is that it is so customizable.
So with 4th edition they took that freedom and adaptability and threw it out and instead created a table top version of a MMORPG. Strangely enough I like playing the cleric (I know it's hard to believe) and in 4th edition what does the cleric do? He hits people. Just like every other class. Oh, sometimes other things happen in addition to him hitting people, but really that seems to be his main purpose. Especially since everyone can just heal themselves.
What happened to defense and support? All of a sudden everything is about doing damage. The support and defensive abilities have been nerfed and every single character class is now about dishing out as much damage as possible. If that was what I wanted to do I would simply play a fighter or offensive mage in every campaign. Or I would play WOW.
I realize that some people really like 4th edition, but my collection of 3rd edition books aren't going to be collecting dust any time soon.
 D&D November 14, 2008
0 out of 2 found this review helpful
The new d&d is great,mine don't yet it arrived but already read of my friends. Sensational.
Ps: sorry my english.
 D&D, edition 4. New and improved, or just new? November 10, 2008
1 out of 3 found this review helpful
I've been a fan of Dungeons and Dragons since the early 1980's. I was in on the first wave of publications that TSR Hobbies created back then (still have a few of them, too).
I liked the base of information that the first set of printed material established, but quite often felt frustrated when a completely unexpected set of circumstances cropped up during the game that wasn't covered by the information in the material and couldn't be entirely fixed by pure imagination. I ended up inventing or helping invent many guidelines and rules for my play group to resolve these issues.
Edition four happily addresses many of those issues. The best new addition is the codification of procedures for characters that are dying. Before, they just died. Very "unrealistically" in many cases. Now, a more sensible system has been created to allow those favorite characters to be saved using "real-life" techniques that make the game play more enjoyable. Wizards of the Coast has included many other clarifications to the older systems as well. Many of them are welcome additions to the game system.
My only criticisms or concerns are about the tendency to over-codify the game. Much of the enjoyment of the original game came from the combination of guidelines from the book and the story-telling ability of the players. While appreciative of the clarifications the new edition has added that smooth over problems that caused play delay, I worry that a tendency is developing for the creation of too much game "legislation". Even though the publishers repeatedly tell the reader to only use the pieces that fit their game, my advice is to stop adding new rules whenever possible before the system becomes too confusing and cumbersome.
On a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 means STINK-O, RUN AWAY and 10 means PLAY NON-STOP FOR THREE DAYS STRAIGHT, I give the newest additions to the Dungeons and Dragons product line an 8. Play On, fellow D&Ders!
Misguided, Unwanted, Bland November 10, 2008
5 out of 7 found this review helpful
Yes, I know that I already posted this same review of 4e for the Player's Handbook, but I really want people to know what I think of this awful new edition, and I don't feel that this steaming pile deserves any more of time than I have already devoted to it, so I'm posting the exact same review again. Enjoy my copy-pasted rantings. ENJOY THEM OR ELSE!
As someone who actually has played D&D 4e (quite a bit actually, since I have a friend who has completely committed himself to it, despite its glaring inadequacies) I can say that without a doubt it is one of the least engaging role-playing games that I have ever had the chance to play. The characters are generic and uninspired in spite of the "EXTREME, COOL POWERS!! (tm)" spin that the text tries to put on everything. I've made several characters of the same class and I have yet to feel as though any of them were truly unique.
Combat is boring due to the monsters having been injected with so many hit points each that it takes quite a while to kill anything that is not a minion. Once every party member inevitably exhausts their "daily" powers in a flurry of fleeting excitement during the first rounds of combat trying to quickly dispatch the monster that they have encountered upon first wandering into the field just outside town as mewling first level adventurers, which unbeknownst to them has well over 100 hit points (the monster, not the field), the game quickly becomes a chore, consisting of informing the DM that you use your cinematically and non-sensically named "tide of iron" attack in round after round of mindless swinging and usually missing. Minions (monsters that die in one hit no matter the source, be it a sword to the head, or a gentle retort from a frail old woman) of course, have been added without a reason for their existence, aside from "CINEMATIC ACTION! HEROES KILL PEOPLE ALL THE TIME WITH ONE HIT IN THE MOVIES!".
The addition of trite races such as the "i'm so anti-hero that I have Spawn (tm) sheets on my bed which is shaped like a pentagram" tieflings, and the "I watched Eragon and I want to play a dragon, and now my DM can't say no" dragonborn, makes the intentions and loyalties of the game-designers fairly transparent. It also makes me want to cut myself and blog about how much I hate everyone on my myspace page.
In my opinion, the game designers quite obviously set out to create a game intended to appeal to a wider market. They have even stated as much themselves. Judging from the content of 4e this wider market consists of kindergartners, and those who wore Oakley's sunglasses in the 90's because they saw a famous sports personality wearing them. They also quite obviously wanted to tap into the limitless revenue that the MMORPG market has streaming from its gaping orifices. The game designers, in this case, have not stated as much, because they have been warned by scientists that the sheer volume of the massive "I TOLD YOU SO!" that would be dislodged from every disgruntled 3.5 fan if such a revelation were ever made, would be enough crack the very fabric of space-time, allowing the formless denizens of indescribable horror that lurk on the other side of the veil which we call 'reality' to pour forth into our world, immediately causing sales of 4e to plummet. While surely this is a noble and truly capitalistic goal, the only problem with trying to reach this elusive "wider" audience of part-time WoW players and the mentally under-developed, is that role-playing as a hobby always has been (and probably always will be) the demesne of the idle intellectual, as roleplaying requires several of the traits possesed by those with too much time and too much wasted potential. Trying to create a roleplaying game targeted at the common denominator is akin to creating a calculus textbook for puppies, or a comprehensive ornithological guide for NASCAR fans.
Essentially, I'd say not only to not buy any current or future printed book of the 4th edition Dungeons & Dragons series, but also to strive to cultivate a feeling of being actively insulted by their mere existence. When you finally bypass being merely jaded by this pointless new edition, and you surmount the lofty pinnacle of abject loathing (Ah! What's this? An abject pinnacle? An oxymoron... OR IS IT??? YOU make the call!) and you are able to experience a burning hatred for several strangers whom, though you have never met them, somehow conspired to destroy that one beautiful thing in your life where you were able to find some bit of enjoyment, then you will have an understanding, however fragmentary, of how I feel.
In an effort to reach a wider audience with my review, here's the "Cool" (tm WotC 2008) version:
this game is the SuXX0r. its like WoW except it sux. if D&D was a beer, then the makers of 4e are like some dudes that came along and pissed in ur beer. the end.
Squandered Potential November 10, 2008
4 out of 5 found this review helpful
When I first heard about 4th edition I was quite excited. I couldn't wait to get my hands on all the brand new shiny rules. I read all the updates about the new races and classes from Wizards of the Coast online, and I thought "hmmm a little bit strange that they seem to be making so many changes, but they still sound like great ideas". When the books finally came out, I bought my copies right away, and read through them. At first I was confused by the fact that the new game was COMPLETELY new. There was basically nothing left of the old editions in 4th edition. It was a totally new game. Strange, I thought, but I ignored that little voice telling me to be wary and went ahead and started up a game with some of my friends, all D&D 3.5 players who had also been waiting for the new edition to come out... all except for one friend who refused to play because he hated the new changes. I tried to explain that they weren't changes as much as it was a whole new game, but he said that was even worse. I ignored his opinions, but now in hindsight, he was absolutely correct.
As we played the game, at first we thought the game was a blast. It was fun having special "powers" as a fighter, and being able to use spells over and over again, but as the weeks progressed we started to notice some things as we reached higher levels (I think that 12th was the highest level anyone in our group reached). We weren't really enjoying the game like we did the first few times when it was still new, and 2 players started making excuses not to show up at the game, and 1 other player though he came to the game every time, constantly expressed an interest in going back to 3.5 or playing a totally different system. Essentially everyone was bored with 4th, and after having only played for about a month and a half. We'd had 3.0 and 3.5 games that had lasted years without players leaving or expressing boredom. No one was looking forward to the next game session and no one really cared about their characters. We played a few more times, but then agreed to quit and started a new 3.5 game, but we decided to use only the 3 core books of 3.5 (PHB, DMG, and MM) to see if we became as bored with it as quickly as we did with 4th. Needless to say, that game is still going (but we did allow one player to use a prestige class from complete mage).
Overall, while 4th edition seemed fun at first, we quickly realized that character building choices, such as feats and powers mattered very little in the long run. It was almost impossible to build an interesting and unique character. Even the classes bled together, despite having different powers. The only element of the characters that seemed unique was the race, but still every character of the same race seemed the same, and if "you didn't play enough different characters to know if they can be unique or not" is your counter argument, then you would be wrong as far as I'm concerned. We played 2 times a week for almost 2 months, and with 3 complete parties wiped out by assorted "balanced encounters" each of us played at least 4 characters.
Which brings me to another point that I haven't seen many people mention; the increasesd lethality of this edition. Our DM started with a module (keep of the shadowfall or something like that) and we were killed (one person escaped) by a group of kobolds. We chalked it up to inexperience with the new system, and tried to use better tactics next time. We made it through to the end of the module but were almost wiped again by the final encounter (2 people out of 5 died, but only 1 person was left actually conscious when the bad guy died). We figured that maybe the module was just designed to be a meat-grinder style adventure so the DM started planning his own game with encounters balanced according to the DMG. Two games later our party was wiped out completely (no one escaped) by an elite solo monster that was supposedly a balanced "boss" encounter for our party level. After this another player wanted to DM for a while, so we started new characters but at the same levels as our last characters. It went pretty good for a while, but then one player stopped showing up to games, for various reasons, and then some number of games after that (i think it was about 2 levels since we started over, I can't really remember) our party was TPKed again. In between the start over and the TPK 2 people had died in isolated situations but those seemed normal at the time. Even though we were TPKed the DM said that we'd "been captured" and we had to fight our way out of prison, which was kind of fun, but it felt fake and undeserved.
When 4th edition info first started to appear on the internet, there was talk of characters being "pumped up" with hit points and that this would increase early level survivability. It turns out the opposite is actually true. The characters have more HP but so do the monsters; unbelievable numbers of HP in some cases. Fights seem to drag on and on as the players swing and do minor amounts of damage to the creatures massive HP scores which are in every case but "minions" equal to or greater than the players HP scores. Minions on the other hand may seem like a good idea; monsters that can be used as a howling horde of weaklings, but die quickly. However, in practice they take the fun out of the battle. When you hit a minion it feels like a "gimme", like patting a little kid on the head and saying "good job! you hit the ball!" (straight to the firstbaseman). They all have one hit point and die from a single hit, but they feel very gratuitous, almost pointless. Not only are they simply an annoyance, but they deprive the player the fun and excitement of scoring a critical hit for maximum damage, or even of rolling for damage at all. Very disappointing.
I could go on detailing other oddities of play experience that our group encountered, but other reviews listed here have pointed them out over and over, and in greater detail than I really care to, mainly because I simply don't care anymore. 4th edition was an opportunity for WotC to fix and update the previous edition, but instead, judging by the final product, the only thing they truly ever intended to update was the company's stock price (Oooh, he made a joke about Wizards only being out to make a profit! Get him! Nerd Rage!). They created a detailed but boring board game, from which I am sure they will make quite a bit of money off of those fooled by the brand label still attached to this unrecognizable edition. I plan to recoup some of what I gave to Wizards by selling my books back to the local game store, since in just a couple of months I've had my fill of 4th edition.
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